TheSanhedrin.NET

[AharonBenjamin]

B"H

I heard someone say that when the redemption occurs, that polygamy may be allowed once again by the Torah.

Is there any truth to this suggested allegation?
_________________
B"H
Na Nach Nachma Nachman MeUman
Yechi Adoneinu Moreinu VeRabbeinu Melech HaMoshiach LeOlam VaEd!

[Binyomin]

Polygamy always been allowed among non-Ashkenazic Jewish communities.

Among Ashkenazic Jewish communities polygamy was prohibited due to a declaration reached by through the efforts of Rabbeinu Gershom.

Rabbeinu Gershom was the head of a yeshiva in Mainz. He was the spiritual guide of the fledgling Ashkenazic Jewish communities and was very influential in molding them at a time when their population was dwindling. During his lifetime, some claim it was due to his greatness as a Talmudic scholar, Mainz became a center of Torah and Jewish scholarship for many Jewish communities in Europe that had formerly been connected with the Babylonian yeshivas. Students came from all over Europe to enroll in his yeshiva. His many students later dispersed among various communities in Germany and beyond which helped spread Jewish learning. Rashi of Troyes (d. 1105) said less than a century after his death "all members of the Ashkenazi diaspora are students of his (i.e. Rabbeinu Gershom's) students".

Some have speculated that if Rabbeinu Gershom had never lived then there may not have been something known as "Ashkenazic Judaism" as it is known today. As early as the 14th century Asher ben Jehiel (the Rosh, one of the three sources for the Shulchan Aruch) praised Rabbeinu Gershom's writings.

He is famous for his religious bans within Judaism, which include:

* The prohibition of polygamy for 1,000 years, which theoretically expired around 2004
* The prohibition of divorcing a woman against her will.
* The prohibition of reading private mail.

His bans are considered binding on all of Ashkenazic Jewry until the present day, although the reasons for this are controversial. Some hold that the bans are still binding and others consider them to have expired but nonetheless obligatory to follow as universally accepted customs.

In many countries it is not practiced due to dina demalchuta dina, the requirement to respect the "law of the land". In Israel polygamy is not recognized by the government, but it is not against the law.

[David Ketter]

I personally can't see wanting the trouble of more than one wife...I've yet to see any example in the Tanakh where a man marrying more than one woman produced a harmonious family - although it is true that some great men came of such families - Avraham, Yitzhach, Yosef and his brothers, Sh'muel, Shlomo, etc.

[AharonBenjamin]

Thanks Sw for the informative answer.

[AharonBenjamin]

Another question on a somewhat related subject.

In the Chumash w/Rashi recently I noticed the following surprising thing:

[David Ketter]

Okay, I'm not expert (again), but it would seem that prior to the giving of Torah at Sinai, the prohibition of marrying a sibling wasn't in effect. Consider the following:

The children of Adam and Havah - Cain, Abel, Seth, etc. had to have married their sisters in order to fill the earth.

It is also possible that the children of Shem, Cham, and Yaphet married their siblings...again, the mandate to fill the earth.

Avraham and Sarah - Sarah was the daughter of Terah, but by a different mother.

Off-hand, that's all that I can think of, but perhaps HaShem made that command to protect Am Yisrael and HaGoyim because, as we now know, that sort of relationship causes problems for the offspring.

[David Ketter]

SW:

Yes, but Aharon was referring to the statement from Rashi where it was noted that Dinah only promised to come back with her brothers after the purge of Shechem if Simeon promised to marry her...

[Binyomin]

When it is said that they kept all of the 613 commandments, it doesn't mean they did it the same way we do now.

This midrash is one of several opinions. One tradition says that Dina became the wife of Job. Another tradition says that Dina, the daughter of Leah, married Shimon, her maternal and paternal brother. This would have been incest and is unlikely. A third tradition says that from the union of Dina and Shechem came a daughter who was adopted by Poti-Phera the Priest of On in Egypt and she married Joseph.

The Tur al HaTorah notices this problem. The Shaul ben HaCna’anis, recorded as a son of Shimon in Israel’s first census (Shmos 6,15), is identified by the Midrash as being the son of Dina, who was nivalah l’Cna’ani. Unlike other incestuous relations, such as Amram marrying his aunt or Yaacov marrying sisters which may have only been effective post-Matan Torah, maternal brother is forbidden even to Bnei Noach. This question, has been left b’tzarich iyun.

There are other explanations, such as they were all gerrim, or simply this midrash conflicts with the teaching that a ben noach can't marry a maternal brother, etc.

Rashi (Breishis 30,21) cites the Midrash that Leah’s seventh child was meant to be a son but was transmogrified to a girl in response to her prayers that Rachel beget two of the destined Twelve Tribes. Targum Yonasan ben Uziel writes that Rachel and Leah’s fetuses were swapped, rather than Leah’s having been transformed. According to this, Dina was conceived in Rachel’s womb but born to Leah, and this permitted to a Bnei Noach.

[AharonBenjamin]

[BatSheva]

[Binyomin]

This is one of the issues on the agenda of the nascent Sanhedrin.

The current state of Jewish law is that polygamy always been allowed among non-Ashkenazic Jewish communities, but among Ashkenazic Jewish communities polygamy was prohibited due to a declaration reached by through the efforts of Rabbeinu Gershom. Even where polygamy is permitted it is generally discouraged.

The prohibition of polygamy was declared to be "for 1,000 years", which theoretically expired around 2004.

On the strength of tradition the Ashkenazic community is continuing to observe the decree of Rabbeinu Gershom, but it is important that a rabbinical court rule on this.

In my discussions with a few members of the court, the general feeling was that the ruling should not be renewed, based on opinions that the reasons that Rabbeinu Gershom prohibited polygamy are no longer relevant: that polygamy should be permitted, although generally discouraged as it has in the past, for all Jewish communities. But the nascent Sanhedrin has not yet issued a ruling on this point, and may rule to continue the prohibition.

[BatSheva]

While there is likely to be public outcry against allowing polygamy again, I believe that any ruling by the Sanhedrin will be done according to Torah and under much consideration.

If polygamy ends up being allowed again, would the Sanhedrin make guidelines to follow, or list potential circumstances in which a polygamous family might be established or considered?

[BatSheva]

Also, if polygamy becomes permissable again, would then the allowance of having a concubine also be permissible under the same ruling? I've tried to research the history of having a concubine within Judaism, but have had minimal success. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but having a concubine happened when there were reasons why the man could not have the woman for a wife, whether it be for political reasons, or for other major family concerns. To my understanding a concubine was a sort of lesser wife, but a woman with whom there was a commitment. Was this woman to have children only, or for a special personal relationship? From what I understand, this sort of long term relationship exists today in many places, although done informally. Since I've had difficulty finding a whole lot of information about this, could you clarify for me what a concubine was historically and what her role was?

[Binyomin]

For reasons of modesty, I don't think this forum is the proper place for this dicussion.

In short, polygamy was always permitted under Jewish Law, but forbidden due to circumstance under the ban of Rabbeinu Gershom. Pilegesh (concubine) relationships are disputed, and there is disagreement by Rabbinical authorities as to their permissibility. Allowing one would not necessary allow the other because they have different considerations.

Best wishes
Binyomin

[Rabbi_Yisrael]